Should assault weapons be banned?

[Rin]

There's not just school shootings, but also your typical gang shootings that happen in places none of us will ever go. They're pretty bad in the US.

That said idk if the alternative is better. This whole right to bear arms thing is about safety during a full blown war. Or something like if the President decided to be a dictator. It will bring negative effect over multiple generations but when it becomes useful, it becomes very useful.

The USA is one of those countries that have never been conquered, unlike Japan or India or even China, and the right to bear arms does have a significant effect on its military capacity. Today you may have a hardened criminal gunning down an enemy gang. Tomorrow, that same criminal may be a war hero.

 

[Woot]

If we want to talk about common crime, the most dangerous weapons are the shittiest weapons. Hundred dollar pistols and shotguns are used in the vast majority of crime. Cheapness and concealability is far more conducive to crime than a tactical grip or a shoulder thing that goes up.

'Assault weapons' are barely 1 percent of crime however you measure it, and legally registered machine guns (there are still a few hundred thousand out there) have been used in about 2 murders ever.

It would make more sense to ban .38 revolvers than it does to ban Ar-15's.

 

[RoboMonkey]

We banned automatic weapons, and guess what no one has them anymore.

I highly doubt that this is correct. I'm sure there are ways to get an automatic weapon if someone really tried. Banning something only means you don't understand the real source of the problem, and would rather sweep the problem under the rug rather than solve it. Making something illegal that was previously legal increases crime rates, increases criminal sentences, and contributes to mass incarceration.

The better solution would be to invest in education, teach children about gun safety, increase access to mental health facilities (universal healthcare would be nice), and have a more comprehensive vetting process. Yeah, all of this is harder than just banning something but at least it solves the root of the problem rather than pretending to solve it by making something illegal. We should be focusing on getting to the root and not just yelling about a gun that is mostly symbolic at this point, considering very little deaths a year are caused by assault weapons.

Edit: I like this because it has data and shows that banning assault weapons didn't actually work in the USA: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html?_r=0

 

[John Henry Eden]

We banned automatic weapons, and guess what no one has them anymore.

Actually I happen to have an AK-47 That my uncle helped me modify from Semi-Auto and I have never shot up a school.

Guns dont kill people, People kill people

Let me explain:

You ban guns people use knives, You ban Knives people use rocks, You somehow remove all rocks, And people will still kill each other with their bare hands. Violence is a part of human nature guns are just equalizers. If everyone was armed no one would have the balls to prey on the weak. And Gun Laws only hinder Law abiding citizens. Any psycho could get any type of gun off the black market. Banning just keeps guns out of the innocent people's hands.

 

[Robert E Lee]

We banned automatic weapons, and guess what no one has them anymore.

Most of the weapons in mass shootings that are assault weapons are banned.

 

[John Henry Eden]

Most of the weapons in mass shootings that are assault weapons are banned.

exactly what I was talking about. Only Innocent people follow gun Laws

 

[japan77]

Less people, less crime.

lowest crime rate (accounts for population)

 

[Robert E Lee]

lowest crime rate (accounts for population)

Does it? Because by all accounts Japan has the lowest crime rate because the fact there is less people and because of how they act culturally. This has little to do with trying to make another country like Japan. Different values etc.

 

[Konakaga]

Actually I happen to have an AK-47 That my uncle helped me modify from Semi-Auto and I have never shot up a school.

Guns dont kill people, People kill people

Let me explain:

You ban guns people use knives, You ban Knives people use rocks, You somehow remove all rocks, And people will still kill each other with their bare hands. Violence is a part of human nature guns are just equalizers. If everyone was armed no one would have the balls to prey on the weak. And Gun Laws only hinder Law abiding citizens. Any psycho could get any type of gun off the black market. Banning just keeps guns out of the innocent people's hands.

That is such stupid strawman with a knive you can't easily mow down a crowd of people of seconds. Of course targeted 1 person trying to kill 1 person is extremely difficult to prevent because there are so many options. This is about mass shootings with 4 or more victims happening daily with are possible largely due to guns. 

And acquiring automatic weapons is more difficult since the ban, so they're rarely used for crime. So most people with mental illness actually don't know how to acquire guns illegally from the data below.

exactly what I was talking about. Only Innocent people follow gun Laws

False, data for mass shootings (with 4 or more fatalities) shows otherwise that most guns were gotten legally. See their data below:

Method of Action:

1. Out of 63 mass shootings over the past 30 years, only 5 have involved illegally purchased weapons. Some of the shooters had a history of mental illness or a criminal record – preventing a sale of firearms to these individuals would reduce the frequency of shootings.
   
2. Many of the shooters with a history of mental illness had no criminal record – it’s unlikely that they would know how to obtain an illegal firearm.
   
3. Some of the shooters purchased weapons in the days after making threats against a school or other institution – in these cases, a properly implemented stringent background check system would have prevented the weapon sales
   

I highly doubt that this is correct. I'm sure there are ways to get an automatic weapon if someone really tried. Banning something only means you don't understand the real source of the problem, and would rather sweep the problem under the rug rather than solve it. Making something illegal that was previously legal increases crime rates, increases criminal sentences, and contributes to mass incarceration.

See data above many of the shooters had no criminal record, so they lack knowledge or time & effort to obtain a weapon unlawfully. They would likely settle for a less powerful but legal weapon which is why the bans/restrictions work.

The better solution would be to invest in education, teach children about gun safety, increase access to mental health facilities (universal healthcare would be nice), and have a more comprehensive vetting process. Yeah, all of this is harder than just banning something but at least it solves the root of the problem rather than pretending to solve it by making something illegal. We should be focusing on getting to the root and not just yelling about a gun that is mostly symbolic at this point, considering very little deaths a year are caused by assault weapons.

Overall yes those are all good possible things to help address gun violence as whole especially mandatory gun safety classes for purchase & better vetting process, I agree. But that don't give a compelling reason to allow assault weapon or any other weapons with such excessive killing power none the less.

If we want to talk about common crime, the most dangerous weapons are the shittiest weapons. Hundred dollar pistols and shotguns are used in the vast majority of crime. Cheapness and concealability is far more conducive to crime than a tactical grip or a shoulder thing that goes up.

'Assault weapons' are barely 1 percent of crime however you measure it, and legally registered machine guns (there are still a few hundred thousand out there) have been used in about 2 murders ever.

It would make more sense to ban .38 revolvers than it does to ban Ar-15's.

Mass shootings shouldn't be considered common crime. They are due to frequency that is why it's a crisis. Addressing common crime takes different measures more like what Piratemonkey said than addressing Mass Shootings.

Does it? Because by all accounts Japan has the lowest crime rate because the fact there is less people and because of how they act culturally. This has little to do with trying to make another country like Japan. Different values etc.

It's more so due to them have what are probably the most restrictive gun control laws & policies on the planet. Getting a gun in japan is an ordeal & carrying around the gun & ammo at the same time 'just because' is actual a crime there.

 

[Robert E Lee]

It's more so due to them have what are probably the most restrictive gun control laws & policies on the planet.

But Japan has the highest suicide rating. I'll tell ya why, they don't have guns.

 

[Woot]

Mass shootings shouldn't be considered common crime. They are due to frequency that is why it's a crisis. Addressing common crime takes different measures more like what Piratemonkey said than addressing Mass Shootings.

The thread isn't a mass shooting debate, ordinary crime is fair game to talk about and several posts before mine brought it up.

 

[Konakaga]

But Japan has the highest suicide rating. I'll tell ya why, they don't have guns.

Actually it's more so due to their insane education/work stress & reports of bullying not being treated seriously because of the culture as far I know & is entirely unrelated to guns, especially note worthy is the large annual spike in the amount of them on the day school starts back.

The thread isn't a mass shooting debate, ordinary crime is fair game to talk about and several posts before mine brought it up.

Yes, but massing shoots are closely tied with Assault weapons, many of the cases used Assault weapons compared to common crime where they're uncommon, thus people wanting to ban Assault weapons is tied to mass shootings, while clearly different measures would need to be taken to address common crime but that's a different issue entirely & attempts to falsely brand assault weapons as non-issue because there are bigger issues.

 

[John Henry Eden]

Actually it's more so due to their insane education/work stress & reports of bullying not being treated seriously because of the culture as far I know & is entirely unrelated to guns, especially note worthy is the large annual spike in the amount of them on the day school starts back.

Yes, but massing shoots are closely tied with Assault weapons, many of the cases used Assault weapons compared to common crime where they're uncommon, thus people wanting to ban Assault weapons is tied to mass shootings, while clearly different measures would need to be taken to address common crime but that's a different issue entirely & attempts to falsely brand assault weapons as non-issue because there are bigger issues.

Last I checked they are still banned and being used in mass shootings nonetheless. Just because you can't get em at your local gun store doesn't mean your local black market doesn't have em. 

 

[Konakaga]

Last I checked they are still banned and being used in mass shootings nonetheless. Just because you can't get em at your local gun store doesn't mean your local black market doesn't have em. 

Can you link a source here then because the source I linked showed about 95% of the weapons were lawfully obtained, and none of the unlawful ones were automatic weapons.

 

[NerdDragon]

US is in so deep with guns and the weapon industry, that If they tried to illegalize weapons, I highly doubt it would work.

 

[Robert E Lee]

Actually it's more so due to their insane education/work stress & reports of bullying not being treated seriously because of the culture as far I know & is entirely unrelated to guns, especially note worthy is the large annual spike in the amount of them on the day school starts back.

Guns = Less Stress. I have found the plan.

 

[japan77]

Guns = Less Stress. I have found the plan.

Actually the reason for Japan's high suicide rate is cultural pressure regarding academic failure, basically if you fail academically, you are better off dead.

 

[Robert E Lee]

Actually the reason for Japan's high suicide rate is cultural pressure regarding academic failure, basically if you fail academically, you are better off dead.

And if they had guns they could go and make more money illegally. Instead of suicide.

 

[japan77]

And if they had guns they could go and make more money illegally. Instead of suicide.

 you do realize, you are literally now making an argument that guns drive up the crime rate right?(thnx)

Secondly, Japan's suicide rate has been declining(probably because all the idiots failed to pass on genes)

 

[Robert E Lee]

 you do realize, you are literally now making an argument that guns drive up the crime rate right?(thnx)

Secondly, Japan's suicide rate has been declining(probably because all the idiots failed to pass on genes)

I was never against saying guns drive up the crime rate. I was against the fact that banning them was doing anything. Learn to read brah.