Poll of the Day: Old Sparky

Should death penalty be legal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Only in certain cases (war time etc)

    Votes: 11 42.3%
  • No

    Votes: 11 42.3%

  • Total voters
    26
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No, there is nothing rational about capital punishment. It has no positive effect on anything and serves no practical purpose. My argument is not solely based on "some moral truth" or any emotional considerations, it's based on very simple reasoning. If you choose to ignore these parts and come up with your own version of what my argument is, then go right ahead, but don't expect to get anywhere by pursuing that course of action.
Your statements prove that your judgement is clouded by your idea of moral truth. You're making it quite obvious. Most of what you've been doing is saying it's wrong and immoral, and then going ahead and calling people who don't share your opinions ignorant. If you were to say that your opinion is based on what you believe to be morally true, then that would have been substantial. But you wished to bring in rationality so I have to question your rationale for your beliefs. You haven't provided much reason yet except for "it has no positive effect and serves no practical purpose," and possibly the fact that rehabilitating criminals works. And maybe the low cost of monitoring people once let go.

I'm just going to ignore the fact that those reasons are merely for why not using capital punishment on people works, not why capital punishment doesn't work. you've mainly been anecdotal and haven't yet provided hard facts. So I'm sorry but objectively, you've been arguing from an emotional perspective. I don't know why you're vilifying emotion so much. That's just another straw man. We're all emotional. Get over it.

I didn't ignore anything you said, but it seems like you're ignoring everyone else and not really providing any basis to your opinion other than moral objection and anecdotal evidence. And to say capital punishment has no practical purpose is objectively wrong. The cost of retaining the inmate for the rest of their life costs quite a lot and hasn't been proven to be cheaper than the execution process (I could be wrong, that is if you provide some facts). That's only one example and I could provide plenty more.  You're ignoring economic, sociological, and psychological benefits to capital punishment based on nothing other than your morality. So back up buddy and start supporting your arguments better with some facts or at least be a little bit more in depth. And this is coming from someone who agrees with your point.

 
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Alright, fair enough.

First of all, I don't believe in moral truths or values. I subscribe to a sort of blend of expressivism and error theory, basically moral nihilism. If you don't already know, this should suffice as an explanation of those terms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_nihilism#Forms

Here are the rationales and the facts behind my opposition of capital punishment:

Many influential philosophers have made arguments against capital punishment. You can read about that and abolition of capital punishment in Europe here:

https://books.google.no/books?id=9CTUR5yOogMC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=voltaire+anti+death+penalty&source=bl&ots=dKjt3nOzzj&sig=Zu3PAkDV_5og5nkCC_-iIM-r-KY&hl=en&ei=lItfTpDKF-fjiAKsiZXPDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&sqi=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

Capital punishment causes many wrongful executions. You can read about that, and a ton of other topics regarding capital punishment here:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/causes-wrongful-convictions

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-and-death-penalty?did=412&scid=6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States

“Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. In the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney bluntly argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed.”

http://www.truthinjustice.org/DNA-DP.htm

This is a treasure trove of information:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/capitalpunishment/against_1.shtml#section_4

“Statistics show that the death penalty leads to a brutalisation of society and an increase in murder rate. In the USA, more murders take place in states where capital punishment is allowed. In 2010, the murder rate in states where the death penalty has been abolished was 4.01 per cent per 100,000 people. In states where the death penalty is used, the figure was 5.00 per cent. These calculations are based on figures from the FBI. The gap between death penalty states and non-death penalty states rose considerably from 4 per cent difference in 1990 to 25 per cent in 2010. Source: FBI Uniform Crime Report, from Death Penalty Information Center

Disturbed individuals may be angered and thus more likely to commit murder.

It is also linked to increased number of police officers murdered.”

Capital punishment is costly:

“In the USA capital punishment costs a great deal.

For example, the cost of convicting and executing Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City Bombing was over $13 million.

In New York and New Jersey, the high costs of capital punishment were one factor in those states' decisions to abandon the death penalty. New York spent about $170 million over 9 years and had no executions. New Jersey spent $253 million over a 25-year period and also had no executions. Source: Death Penalty Information Center

In countries with a less costly and lengthy appeals procedure, capital punishment seems like a much cheaper option than long-term imprisonment.”

More sources about the costs of capital punishment:

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

http://www.safecalifornia.org/downloads/2.5.B_executingwillofvoters.pdf

“Turns out, it is cheaper to imprison killers for life than to execute them, according to a series of recent surveys. Tens of millions of dollars cheaper, politicians are learning, during a tumbling recession when nearly every state faces job cuts and massive deficits.

So an increasing number of them are considering abolishing capital punishment in favor of life imprisonment, not on principle but out of financial necessity.

"It's 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive," though most Americans believe the opposite, said Donald McCartin, a former California jurist known as "The Hanging Judge of Orange County" for sending nine men to death row.”"

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.Ty45tlxAu8A

So, based on all of that, capital punishment is more expensive than imprisonment, it doesn't deter violent crime, and it condemns innocent people to death.

 
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The cost of retaining the inmate for the rest of their life costs quite a lot and hasn't been proven to be cheaper than the execution process (I could be wrong, that is if you provide some facts).
You are mistaken in the USA anyways it costs far more for capital punishments for a lot reasons.

See my post on the previous page.

 
You are mistaken in the USA anyways it costs far more for capital punishments for a lot reasons.

See my post on the previous page.
Yeah I realized that it's wrong but I was too lazy to edit it out ? that's why I said I could be wrong, I wasn't entirely sure because I didn't have any facts.

 
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