Electoral College

Should the Electoral College be abolished and have the president be decided by popular vote?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 57.9%
  • No

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19

Ryan Miller

Active member
Poll of the day.

The Electoral College is a system in how to determine the next president of the United States. How it works is that the states decide on who the next president is rather than the people as a whole. Some states have more votes than the other because there are more people in that state. The states hold kind of like a mini election where the people in that state vote on who they would like that state to vote for. For instance, if more people in New York vote for Democrat, then ALL the electoral votes go to the Democrat nominee. The candidate with the most electoral votes wins the election. Since the states determine who the president should be, there comes a rare circumstance where the winner of an election wins the electoral vote BUT loses the popular vote (matter in fact, it just happened in the 2016 election). "It's complicated, I get that a lot, mostly from my friends in Europe" - United States

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Yes: Seriously, other democracies elect their leaders directly by the people

No: The states should decide who the president should be and to prevent vote by mob rule

 
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Alright, let me tell you why the electoral college is one of the smartest things put into the United States constitution. If the vote was decided 100% on popular vote, 3 problems would occur:

1. Most Candidates would only focus on big cities (Chicago, LA, Atlanta, New York City) meaning that none of the smaller states would get a major say in the government. And for good reason, because there are a lot of people in those cities. However, those people tend to be all of the same party (democrats), which leads into my next problem.

2. Popular vote would mean that democrats win all the time. Which sounds great, but eventually the party will fracture into a niched system where you have communists, socialists, etc etc (basically different types of democrats). You'll end up with a lot of different parties, which means that your president will not have a majority of the votes, but only like 20%. However, you might say that popular vote is a better representation of all of america, which is false because:

3. With the electoral college, no one candidate can win with having appeal in one region. No region of the US (south, midwest, north-east, blah blah) has enough electoral votes to deliver someone the presidency. Look at Romney.

That's it. I'd love for someone to add to this or refute this, because it's fun arguing about things that I know about and that make sense to me.

 
2. Popular vote would mean that democrats win all the time.


Both parties would just move slightly farther to the left. The parties constantly change their platforms to appeal to as many voters as possible, they don't just flounder and die forever when their platforms become unpopular.

 
Alright, let me tell you why the electoral college is one of the smartest things put into the United States constitution. If the vote was decided 100% on popular vote, 3 problems would occur:

1. Most Candidates would only focus on big cities (Chicago, LA, Atlanta, New York City) meaning that none of the smaller states would get a major say in the government. And for good reason, because there are a lot of people in those cities. However, those people tend to be all of the same party (democrats), which leads into my next problem.

2. Popular vote would mean that democrats win all the time. Which sounds great, but eventually the party will fracture into a niched system where you have communists, socialists, etc etc (basically different types of democrats). You'll end up with a lot of different parties, which means that your president will not have a majority of the votes, but only like 20%. However, you might say that popular vote is a better representation of all of america, which is false because:

3. With the electoral college, no one candidate can win with having appeal in one region. No region of the US (south, midwest, north-east, blah blah) has enough electoral votes to deliver someone the presidency. Look at Romney.

That's it. I'd love for someone to add to this or refute this, because it's fun arguing about things that I know about and that make sense to me.


1. You say this but it ignores existing problems with the electoral college system.  With a popular vote system, EVERY vote counts, and they all count EQUALLY.  One vote in rural Kentucky is worth the same as a vote in NYC.  You say that candidates would only focus on big cities, but this doesn't make any sense.  More than four out of every five people live in urban areas in the United States - 80.7%.  And yet, according to you, all of these people are Democrats.  Consider the fact that Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton got 62,000,000 and 65,000,000 votes respectively.  If urban areas were all solidly Democratic, then Hillary would have easily won both the popular vote AND the electoral college, since those swing states should have swung for her.  Unfortunately, it didn't happen that way.  Your first point simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny, as the real-life makeup of urban areas are far more diverse than you give them credit for.  You're falling for a media narrative of "liberal big cities"; while the largest, largest cities may be more liberal, they also only make up a very small portion of the population of urban areas.

2. The popular vote is not inherently favorable to Democrats.  Let's go back all the way to Reagan, which is about when the existing set of politics started fragmenting and becoming the modern day demographical nightmare it is.  Reagan  got about 2-3 million more than Carter and Anderson combined.  He then got 17 million more votes than Mondale.  However, the next year, H W got only 7 million more votes than Dukakis. 

It all switched to the Democrats when Bill Clinton joined in - however, Bill Clinton in his first election got about the same amount as Reagan did in his first election.  The vote was split by Perot.  In his next election, the same thing happened - Clinton got 47 million, and Dole and Perot combined for about 47 million.

Gore and Bush were split by about 600,000 votes and recounts were called off.  Bush v Kerry was about a 3 million split.  The big reason many people consider the popular vote to be solidly Democratic is because of Barack Obama, who got nearly 70,000,000 votes, the most ever by any Presidential candidate.  Clinton, however, only got 65 million.

My point is this: Democrats do not have a solid lock on the popular vote.  Republicans came out for Trump at about the same rate as Bush - and won both times, despite the Democrats having a solid swing in ups and downs.  If the Democrats were truly in lock step with the popular vote, they would have not had the issues you're describing, which has required major splits in the past and major voter enthusiasm from Obama voters to muster up.

3. This is also the case for the popular vote - No region of the United States has anywhere near the popular vote to carry any one candidate.  The Northeast has about 55 million, the Midwest about 66 million, the West about 74 million, and the South about 118 million.  However, the South is also the least homogenous of these groups, with the heaviest demographical divides, making it impossible for that larger number to become utilized by a single candidate.

In fact, if you break it down even further, you'd find that the four largest sub-regions: the South Atlantic, Pacific, East North Central, Mid-Atlantic are all within 20,000,000 population of each other, are in the South, West, Midwest, and Northeast.  The population of the United States is pretty well spread out and mixed, making your fears of solid voting blocs to be unfounded and based on, again, a narrative of "south conservative" and "north liberal".

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So not only is the popular vote not inherently favorable to big cities, but it is also not favorable to Democrats, and would isolate regions from wielding large power over one another.

 
Now that the alleged drawbacks of the popular vote are debunked, let us move onto the drawbacks of the electoral college.  The biggest one: it does not represent the people of the United States.

1.  4/5 of the United States' voters are not represented by the Electoral College.  Unless you live in a "battleground" state, your vote as a minority is meaningless.  If you are a Democrat and you live in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia, Missouri, Iowa, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, or Alaska - then your vote does not count.  If you are a Republican and you live in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delarware, Maryland, DC, Vermond, New York, Illinois, California, Oregon, Washington, or Hawai'i - then your vote does not count.  Combined, that is 36 states and DC.  That means your vote only counts in 15 states.

Let's go even further - because of the winner takes all system in the electoral college, this means that even those super-liberal or super-conservative states waste all of their excess votes.  That means the extra five hundred thousand Republicans who voted for Trump in Alabama all wasted their vote.  The extra three million California voters for Hillary all wasted their vote.  The extra five hundred thousand voters for Trump in Indiana all wasted their vote, etc - a large majority wastes any vote that isn't the deciding one.

2.  Votes cast as people in large urban populations are actually UNDERREPRESENTED as opposed to rural populations.  Voters in Wyoming, a wildly rural state with mostly conservative voters, have 3.6 times the voting power than someone who lives in California, a mostly liberal and much more urbanized state.

In Wyoming, it takes 187,000 people, give or take, for an electoral vote.  In California, it takes 677,000 people, give or take.  That's 3.6 to 1.

If you are a Republican in California, it will require 3.6 times the effort to change the vote in California, because it is winner take all.  You have to now change the minds of so many more people because you HAVE to get a majority in California to have ANY effort at all.  How is that fair to every suburban or rural voter who wants to counteract the Democratic majority?  It isn't - it punishes everyone, big or small, who is a minority voter.  Democratic voters in large states are worth less than Republican voters in small states, AND it makes it harder for Republicans to be worth it to the national effort by making their upward climb even harder.

Meanwhile, with a popular vote, those millions of Republicans in California now suddenly have a reason to go vote.  Those millions of Democrats in Texas can go and vote without feeling discouraged or knowing that their votes are worthless.  Now they can actually contribute without needing to win that specific state.

Bonus:  Representation for the smaller states is already built into the House and Senate.  All states get proportional representation there.  The President is not a group of people, they are one person, elected by the entire nation, not by individual states.  By making the Presidential election based on popular vote, you do not strip away existing protections for the states nor existing representation - every state-based election will still have their representation.

 
I think the electoral college should stay but it shouldn't be winner take all in a state, the votes should be divided based on the popular vote in that state


That's quite similar to just a popular vote system. I'm assuming that if 60% of votes go to Democrats in New York, then (about) 60% of the electoral votes would go to the Democratic nominee. If that is the case, then that's pretty much a popular vote contest nationally.

 
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