California Shootings

Welcome to the USA. We have at least a shooting a week. Someone went and shot up a health clinic last week too. There are some fundamental problems that Americans need to eventually address, and stop running away from. 

 
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Gun control or no gun control, people need to stop shooting other people. While there is a gun-control debate and issue, it's not the issue. The issue is that there are people who don't value life, who are willing to walk into a school full of kids and murder, senselessly. That's not a matter of gun control, it's a matter of self control. Have we gone so far as a society that when someone commits mass murder we question whether people should have guns or not? I think we should address the issue of why are people still committing mass murder? 

Of course there will always be evil in the world, and there will always be people that are mentally ill or just plain horrible, but they will find a way to hurt others, guns or no guns. 

I live in California, I was taught that hurting others (and yes, even killing others) was wrong, but I was also taught that if someone hits me I can hit them back, I was taught to stand up for those who need someone to stand up for them. Running away from or starting fights is not something I was taught, but defending myself and the people around me was. I've had to practice this 4 times in my life, and each time all I had to do was make a stand in order to stop the confrontation or bullying that was happening. Of course I'm just a pair of hands behind a keyboard, and these are just my thoughts, but I believe there's something to be said about teaching your kids to do the right thing, which is different from teaching them to not to the wrong thing. 

 
Ernsters said:
Gun control or no gun control, people need to stop shooting other people. While there is a gun-control debate and issue, it's not the issue. The issue is that there are people who don't value life, who are willing to walk into a school full of kids and murder, senselessly. That's not a matter of gun control, it's a matter of self control. Have we gone so far as a society that when someone commits mass murder we question whether people should have guns or not? I think we should address the issue of why are people still committing mass murder? 

Of course there will always be evil in the world, and there will always be people that are mentally ill or just plain horrible, but they will find a way to hurt others, guns or no guns. 

I live in California, I was taught that hurting others (and yes, even killing others) was wrong, but I was also taught that if someone hits me I can hit them back, I was taught to stand up for those who need someone to stand up for them. Running away from or starting fights is not something I was taught, but defending myself and the people around me was. I've had to practice this 4 times in my life, and each time all I had to do was make a stand in order to stop the confrontation or bullying that was happening. Of course I'm just a pair of hands behind a keyboard, and these are just my thoughts, but I believe there's something to be said about teaching your kids to do the right thing, which is different from teaching them to not to the wrong thing. 
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I agree about the main issue here.

But identifying the issue does not provide a solution. Gun control is provided as a solution. Maybe you'd advocate for better education, but honestly I don't think it's an education issue. You can't teach people to stand up to a shooter. Thats suicide, that's why people tell them to run or hide when this happens. So the reason people start questioning whether gun control should be a thing after these shootings, instead of the underlying issue, is because we need solutions to this immediate problem. Because honestly, the solution you gave would take at the very least one entire generation to work. We don't have that time.

So that's why this is a matter of gun control. The reason mass shootings happen is not because of the access to guns, no one is actually saying that, but instead gun control is a solution. We haven't quite wrapped our minds around why all of this is happening. But we need a solution now.

 
Piratemonkey said:
I agree about the main issue here.

But identifying the issue does not provide a solution. Gun control is provided as a solution. Maybe you'd advocate for better education, but honestly I don't think it's an education issue. You can't teach people to stand up to a shooter. Thats suicide, that's why people tell them to run or hide when this happens. So the reason people start questioning whether gun control should be a thing after these shootings, instead of the underlying issue, is because we need solutions to this immediate problem. Because honestly, the solution you gave would take at the very least one entire generation to work. We don't have that time.

So that's why this is a matter of gun control. The reason mass shootings happen is not because of the access to guns, no one is actually saying that, but instead gun control is a solution. We haven't quite wrapped our minds around why all of this is happening. But we need a solution now.
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Totally valid points, it would take a long time to re-wire society, it would also take a long time to remove guns from those who would commit heinous acts with them. Not to mention the fact that anyone who wanted to commit a shooting wouldn't be stopped by a gun-free zone, or their lack of a conceal carry permit, they would only be stopped by the inability to acquire a firearm legally or illegally. 

 
Mental health issues compounded to easy access to firearms is a big issue. Gun control measures are a step in the right direction, but I don't think they address the mental health side of things. I remember reading about mass stabbings at a train station in China, if people have issues and for whatever reason they decided killing others is the answer, they'll find a way to kill. Humanity is where we are due to our ability to adapt and kill things, that won't change~

 
Infinite Citadel said:
Mental health issues compounded to easy access to firearms is a big issue. Gun control measures are a step in the right direction, but I don't think they address the mental health side of things. I remember reading about mass stabbings at a train station in China, if people have issues and for whatever reason they decided killing others is the answer, they'll find a way to kill. Humanity is where we are due to our ability to adapt and kill things, that won't change~
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Our problem right now is people with mental issues that have access to weapons, like IC said. I don't think that there is an immediate solution, but there are some that will take some time. The only way that we could stop it is world peace. Otherwise, weapons will be needed.

 
Infinite Citadel said:
Mental health issues compounded to easy access to firearms is a big issue. Gun control measures are a step in the right direction, but I don't think they address the mental health side of things. I remember reading about mass stabbings at a train station in China, if people have issues and for whatever reason they decided killing others is the answer, they'll find a way to kill. Humanity is where we are due to our ability to adapt and kill things, that won't change~
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I do think killing people with guns is by far the easiest though. With a knife, people still have a chance at running away or grabbing an object (ex chair, umbrella, stick, broken bottle) to try to fend off the attacker. There's other possible weapons, like putting on a suicide vest, but that means killing yourself and I think many mass murderers not to mention just "regular" murderers (ex gang violence, domestic violence) aren't willing to take that step. Guns are a pretty effective weapon for potential killers, easily available and relatively inexpensive, difficult for would be victims to run away or fight back unless they also have a gun, and no risk to the user.

As for whether it's possible to effectively prevent would-be-murderers from gaining access to guns by passing certain laws, or if it will always be relatively easy to get them on the black-market, that's a more relevant question and I'm not sure.

 
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