Naughty or Nice?

Are people fundamentally good or inherently bad?

  • People are good. It's situations that trigger them to go bad.

    Votes: 14 70.0%

  • People are the absolute worst. However, they have sparks of being good and decent.

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Total voters
    20
You'd have to define "good" and "bad" in regards to human behavior. 

I've learned that most people are selfish in their core, they may do good things, or be a good person, but many times this stems from a desire to please or bring recognition to themselves. In which case I ask, are they really good?

The question is so much more than just good vs bad, and there are a lot of judgements and assumptions made when deeming someone "good" or "bad".

I'll judge myself for an example. I know that I am naturally lazy and self-centered, i can be mean to people, I lie sometimes, I genuinely hate some people. Hearing this you might consider me a bad person (of course, I only told you the bad about myself). I could make equally long lists of the "bad" and "good" I've done, but like I said, considering I'm self-centered brings into question the motives for anything "good" I do. Some would argue that the motive doesn't matter because you're still doing something "good", but that is focused on the effect, not the cause. The cause will reflect a person's nature, and the cause oftentimes, is selfishness.

I believe this is where love comes into play, when it's too difficult to judge someone's character on how "good" or "bad" they are, judge them by how they love their fellow humans. Love must be selfless to be true, I wouldn't give my best friend a hug and tell them everything will be okay in private for my own gain, that is an act of love. I wouldn't anonymously pay for someone's food because it looked like they had a bad day out of pride, it would be an act of love. 

Are people good or bad? They're undoubtedly both, but they also have an incredible capacity to love, and not utilizing that love (often called compassion) is where we fail as people. 

Anyway, I hope this makes sense.

 
Ernsters said:
You'd have to define "good" and "bad" in regards to human behavior. 

I've learned that most people are selfish in their core, they may do good things, or be a good person, but many times this stems from a desire to please or bring recognition to themselves. In which case I ask, are they really good?

The question is so much more than just good vs bad, and there are a lot of judgements and assumptions made when deeming someone "good" or "bad".

I'll judge myself for an example. I know that I am naturally lazy and self-centered, i can be mean to people, I lie sometimes, I genuinely hate some people. Hearing this you might consider me a bad person (of course, I only told you the bad about myself). I could make equally long lists of the "bad" and "good" I've done, but like I said, considering I'm self-centered brings into question the motives for anything "good" I do. Some would argue that the motive doesn't matter because you're still doing something "good", but that is focused on the effect, not the cause. The cause will reflect a person's nature, and the cause oftentimes, is selfishness.

I believe this is where love comes into play, when it's too difficult to judge someone's character on how "good" or "bad" they are, judge them by how they love their fellow humans. Love must be selfless to be true, I wouldn't give my best friend a hug and tell them everything will be okay in private for my own gain, that is an act of love. I wouldn't anonymously pay for someone's food because it looked like they had a bad day out of pride, it would be an act of love. 

Are people good or bad? They're undoubtedly both, but they also have an incredible capacity to love, and not utilizing that love (often called compassion) is where we fail as people. 

Anyway, I hope this makes sense.
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I mean...someone sent you shit in the mail...

Sometimes the question and answer are just that simple ?

 
Ernsters said:
You'd have to define "good" and "bad" in regards to human behavior. 

I've learned that most people are selfish in their core, they may do good things, or be a good person, but many times this stems from a desire to please or bring recognition to themselves. In which case I ask, are they really good?

The question is so much more than just good vs bad, and there are a lot of judgements and assumptions made when deeming someone "good" or "bad".

I'll judge myself for an example. I know that I am naturally lazy and self-centered, i can be mean to people, I lie sometimes, I genuinely hate some people. Hearing this you might consider me a bad person (of course, I only told you the bad about myself). I could make equally long lists of the "bad" and "good" I've done, but like I said, considering I'm self-centered brings into question the motives for anything "good" I do. Some would argue that the motive doesn't matter because you're still doing something "good", but that is focused on the effect, not the cause. The cause will reflect a person's nature, and the cause oftentimes, is selfishness.

I believe this is where love comes into play, when it's too difficult to judge someone's character on how "good" or "bad" they are, judge them by how they love their fellow humans. Love must be selfless to be true, I wouldn't give my best friend a hug and tell them everything will be okay in private for my own gain, that is an act of love. I wouldn't anonymously pay for someone's food because it looked like they had a bad day out of pride, it would be an act of love. 

Are people good or bad? They're undoubtedly both, but they also have an incredible capacity to love, and not utilizing that love (often called compassion) is where we fail as people. 

Anyway, I hope this makes sense.
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I do agree with the premise that people are biased to be selfish.  I think there's some biology speaking there.  Self-preservation, etc...  And there are various levels of selfishness certainly.  

That said, I do fundamentally believe that people will choose to help others.  If you've ever traveled in another country and needed help, you can walk up to the vast majority of people and they would be happy to help.  People want to feel good.  They want to feel like they are helping more than just themselves.  If they derive this from extrinsic motivators (how others view them) or purely intrinsic ones (how they view themselves) isn't important.  They still want to feel good.  

#armchairpsychology

 
Good and evil are ideas that humans made up. They are subjective and because there is no such thing as universal morality. There is only a consensus that a bunch of humans have generally agreed to, with variations depending on your human cluster of choice. Humans are flawed and so shouldn't really be the basis for a moral code, much less a bunch of humans. 

If we're using the general consensus as the measuring stick, you'd have to wade through all of the scientific papers relating to nature or nurture. A lot of which are conflicting. If any consensus can be derived from those and rule out any outliers, it is that humans are born with certain predispositions and character traits just like they are born with certain physical traits they grow into. The environment they experience as they develop does effect the way some of these traits develop and can, in the end produce a wide variety of results. 

tldr: they can be both

 
Kayser said:
Good and evil are ideas that humans made up. They are subjective and because there is no such thing as universal morality. There is only a consensus that a bunch of humans have generally agreed to, with variations depending on your human cluster of choice. Humans are flawed and so shouldn't really be the basis for a moral code, much less a bunch of humans. 

If we're using the general consensus as the measuring stick, you'd have to wade through all of the scientific papers relating to nature or nurture. A lot of which are conflicting. If any consensus can be derived from those and rule out any outliers, it is that humans are born with certain predispositions and character traits just like they are born with certain physical traits they grow into. The environment they experience as they develop does effect the way some of these traits develop and can, in the end produce a wide variety of results. 

tldr: they can be both
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Milord said:
Or simply close your browser, both are wrong.
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^^^

Queen M said:
Yeah, it's more complex than that, but you can only pick one.
Click to expand...

 
Ernsters said:
You'd have to define "good" and "bad" in regards to human behavior. 

I've learned that most people are selfish in their core, they may do good things, or be a good person, but many times this stems from a desire to please or bring recognition to themselves. In which case I ask, are they really good?

The question is so much more than just good vs bad, and there are a lot of judgements and assumptions made when deeming someone "good" or "bad".

I'll judge myself for an example. I know that I am naturally lazy and self-centered, i can be mean to people, I lie sometimes, I genuinely hate some people. Hearing this you might consider me a bad person (of course, I only told you the bad about myself). I could make equally long lists of the "bad" and "good" I've done, but like I said, considering I'm self-centered brings into question the motives for anything "good" I do. Some would argue that the motive doesn't matter because you're still doing something "good", but that is focused on the effect, not the cause. The cause will reflect a person's nature, and the cause oftentimes, is selfishness.

I believe this is where love comes into play, when it's too difficult to judge someone's character on how "good" or "bad" they are, judge them by how they love their fellow humans. Love must be selfless to be true, I wouldn't give my best friend a hug and tell them everything will be okay in private for my own gain, that is an act of love. I wouldn't anonymously pay for someone's food because it looked like they had a bad day out of pride, it would be an act of love. 

Are people good or bad? They're undoubtedly both, but they also have an incredible capacity to love, and not utilizing that love (often called compassion) is where we fail as people. 

Anyway, I hope this makes sense.
Click to expand...
Is love always an act of selfless though? Can't love also be an act of selfishness? Say if I choose to safe my partner over the lives of thousands. Am I not then being selfish by choosing to save my partner for my own love towards her over the lives of the thousands that died? Like is saving one life out of love still an act of selfless if you are sacrificing thousands of other peoples lives?

My opinion is that there are no good people. Everyone in this world is bad.

 
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BlackAsLight said:
Is love always an act of selfless though? Can't love also be an act of selfishness? Say if I choose to safe my partner over the lives of thousands. Am I not then being selfish by choosing to save my partner for my own love towards her over the lives of the thousands that died? Like is saving one life out of love still an act of selfless if you are sacrificing thousands of other peoples lives?

My opinion is that there are no good people. Everyone in this world is bad.
Click to expand...


Your opinion is wrong and you should feel wrong

 
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