If God is ...

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Dabawss

Dabawss

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all powerful, disregarding the argument that "why would he want to since that isnt the question)

if he is all powerful could he create a rock so huge that he couldnt life it? seriously, this is the common "joke" thread thats been circulating for ages but has never really been answered...

"he has better thinsg to do""it's not in his plan" and other stupid religious catchphrases aside... this very statement implies that he can't be all powerful your thoughts? could he? and if he couldnt doesnt that mean he isnt all powerful... and if he isnt (following the logical chain ) what else isn't he? all knowing? all seeing?

not looking to piss people off but I am trying to understand how a people claiming to be so advanced and intelligent could still hold on to the belief of an all powerful god when anyone can see the whole premise of this "god being" is impossible.

discuss

 
Lordship said:
Paradox question. That's like saying what if an immovable object met an unstoppable force.
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both immovable and unstoppable also "implies" something greater than their ability, as does God's omnipotence.... I conjecture that since the Bible and modern christianity was inspired by the limitations of comprehension of iron age man, that "omnipotence" was just used to describe power beyond their comprehension and understanding, much like space travel, modern modes of transportation....modern medicine would be as miracles... indicating that maybe Omnipotence isnt so potent after all?

 
Dabawss said:
both immovable and unstoppable also "implies" something greater than their ability, as does God's omnipotence.... I conjecture that since the Bible and modern christianity was inspired by the limitations of comprehension of iron age man, that "omnipotence" was just used to describe power beyond their comprehension and understanding, much like space travel, modern modes of transportation....modern medicine would be as miracles... indicating that maybe Omnipotence isnt so potent after all?




 
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By that logic, the 2nd amendment of the constitution should be changed because the founding fathers limited knowledge on weaponry is totally comparable to today's advanced technology. 

I fail to see how immovable and unstoppable imply something greater than their ability. The two simply cannot exist in the same context because they contradict each other.

You will not find empirical data in support of the existence of God or his omnipotence but neither can you find empirical data on it's nonexistence. Therefore you cannot be proven right nor wrong and will simply have to accept it as faith.

 
Lordship said:
By that logic, the 2nd amendment of the constitution should be changed because the founding fathers limited knowledge on weaponry is totally comparable to today's advanced technology. 

I fail to see how immovable and unstoppable imply something greater than their ability. The two simply cannot exist in the same context because they contradict each other.

You will not find empirical data in support of the existence of God or his omnipotence but neither can you find empirical data on it's nonexistence. Therefore you cannot be proven right nor wrong and will simply have to accept it as faith.
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faith is unprovable belief in something... by that logic, can you PROVE that I am not this "god" or that you arent? sure our bodies may whither and die but bodies are just vessels anyhow... can you prove my imaginary friend shirley isnt real? I (in this case) might believe that shirley is real

 
So glad I didn't take that intro to philosophy course. This was literally one of the debate topics. I'm ok with people being atheist but the one thing I cannot stand is when people tell me I'm stupid for being religious. One of my friends told me that back in high school and we got into a long debate about it and it didn't end well. So I wish to never debate this topic again. I strongly believe that you just do you and let me just do me. The world is easier when people aren't shitting on the fact that you're religious or atheist because this debate will never end. I suppose we'll know when we die. I have faith that heaven exists and I hope that even non-believers can be there too. And if I'm wrong, I'd hope for some other happy continuing existence.

 
The answer is Yes, because he can create anything.

But, it's a matter of choice. 

For example: You have Free Will because God chooses not to impose his will on you. Can he impose his will? Yes. But is he? No.

A better question would be: Can God create a being more powerful then himself?

At which point, I'll see myself out. 

 
Ernsters said:
The answer is Yes, because he can create anything.

But, it's a matter of choice. 

For example: You have Free Will because God chooses not to impose his will on you. Can he impose his will? Yes. But is he? No.

A better question would be: Can God create a being more powerful then himself?

At which point, I'll see myself out. 
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The answer is Yes, because he can create anything.

there's no scientific proof of this, it is a belief that he can based on personal opinion with no factual evidence to prove or disprove it. and for that matter, if I give that he can create anything, then it proves he isnt omnipotent because he just created a rock so big that he isnt powerful enough to lift it thus nullifying his being all powerful

For example: You have Free Will because God chooses not to impose his will on you. Can he impose his will? Yes. But is he? No

Does he REALLY give you free will if in your choice to use it to think for yourself and do any number of things he disagrees with but hurt nobody, he punishes you with the worst possible punishment imaginable? That isnt free will that is do as i say or face eternity being punished for it.... that sounds like imposing his will on people to me. Thats like me saying here's $5m it's yours to do with whatever you want but if you dont spend every penny of it buying kittens and puppies and having them dismembered alive then you have to spend forever burning in a non-consuming flame that can not be put out

 
Dabawss said:
The answer is Yes, because he can create anything.

there's no scientific proof of this, it is a belief that he can based on personal opinion with no factual evidence to prove or disprove it. and for that matter, if I give that he can create anything, then it proves he isnt omnipotent because he just created a rock so big that he isnt powerful enough to lift it thus nullifying his being all powerful

For example: You have Free Will because God chooses not to impose his will on you. Can he impose his will? Yes. But is he? No

Does he REALLY give you free will if in your choice to use it to think for yourself and do any number of things he disagrees with but hurt nobody, he punishes you with the worst possible punishment imaginable? That isnt free will that is do as i say or face eternity being punished for it.... that sounds like imposing his will on people to me. Thats like me saying here's $5m it's yours to do with whatever you want but if you dont spend every penny of it buying kittens and puppies and having them dismembered alive then you have to spend forever burning in a non-consuming flame that can not be put out
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If you want to have a discussion about God and Christianity I'd love to, you can PM me. 

I just just giving my answer to your question.

 
My answer: Even being all-powerful refers at most to the ability to do anything.  "A rock that God cannot lift" is a logical impossibility, and hence a meaningless phrase, so it doesn't really fall under the category of "anything".

If you likewise ask whether God can create a rock not directly created by God, this answer can be extended that "all-powerful" also doesn't include the ability to do something that would be meaningless for that individual.

 
Dabawss said:
all powerful, disregarding the argument that "why would he want to since that isnt the question)

if he is all powerful could he create a rock so huge that he couldnt life it? seriously, this is the common "joke" thread thats been circulating for ages but has never really been answered...

"he has better thinsg to do""it's not in his plan" and other stupid religious catchphrases aside... this very statement implies that he can't be all powerful your thoughts? could he? and if he couldnt doesnt that mean he isnt all powerful... and if he isnt (following the logical chain ) what else isn't he? all knowing? all seeing?

not looking to piss people off but I am trying to understand how a people claiming to be so advanced and intelligent could still hold on to the belief of an all powerful god when anyone can see the whole premise of this "god being" is impossible.

discuss
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The best answer I could come up with that if there is an omnipotent god is that omnipotence is limited too. How? By logic.

However, logic could be broken because omnipotence dictates that it must be so.

The final answer: God wouldn't because it is illogical and a paradox.

 
Dabawss said:
all powerful, disregarding the argument that "why would he want to since that isnt the question)

if he is all powerful could he create a rock so huge that he couldnt life it? seriously, this is the common "joke" thread thats been circulating for ages but has never really been answered...

"he has better thinsg to do""it's not in his plan" and other stupid religious catchphrases aside... this very statement implies that he can't be all powerful your thoughts? could he? and if he couldnt doesnt that mean he isnt all powerful... and if he isnt (following the logical chain ) what else isn't he? all knowing? all seeing?

not looking to piss people off but I am trying to understand how a people claiming to be so advanced and intelligent could still hold on to the belief of an all powerful god when anyone can see the whole premise of this "god being" is impossible.

discuss
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I was striding through the fourms and this one just happened to catch my eye ;) oh.. fuck my life.

My answer would be: If there is a God that is omnipotent, who's to say he is compliant to the laws of gravity? If this God existed, who is to say it is on this Earth where objects have mass and are influenced by curvatures in spacetime? Who is to say it even has arms to lift a rock in the first place... I'll lend it mine .. I mean if it needs it so badly to lift this virtual rock here.

Dabawss said:
there's no scientific proof of this, it is a belief that he can based on personal opinion with no factual evidence to prove or disprove it
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There is scientific proof, but I'm unsure if it's stable enough to believe since there is weak ocular evidence and therefore can't fully support it. I think the double-slit experiment in physics could be a point in a discussion like this. In the double-slit experiment, you watch a particle pass through two slits and the particle either goes through one slit or the other. If a person doesn't OBSERVE it, then it acts like a wave and can go through both slits simultaneously; it changes based on a person's perception. The Observer effect in Quantum mechanics (which supports the DS experiment) can also prove that in order for us to hypothetically exist, there must be an absolute observer confirming our existences. What do I personally think of this? Well.. I'm glad you asked 9_9 The double slit experiment proves our universe is information (and possibly a simulation......Hey don't think I'm crazy, Elon Musk thinks so too). So perhaps there is some sort of a god that blankets the universe like a dimension..(maybe the 5th dimension...maybe your friend Shirley lives there...by the way, tell her I said whaddup). Perhaps it's a god that can't be seen (made up of infrared light?) and can travel in waves.

My favorite Neils Bohr quotes are

"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet." and "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real."

Dabawss said:
Does he REALLY give you free will if in your choice to use it to think for yourself and do any number of things he disagrees with but hurt nobody, he punishes you with the worst possible punishment imaginable? That isnt free will that is do as i say or face eternity being punished for it.... that sounds like imposing his will on people to me.
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God must have plagiarized the Roman Catholic Church. ALL HAIL CESARE BORGIA!

Dabawss said:
sure our bodies may whither and die but bodies are just vessels anyhow.
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So I'm assuming you believe that the soul/spirit and body are separate from each other.. but not in the existence of a god/dess?

Dabawss said:
bet it took "god" more than 7 days to make them
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What are days when you're stuck in the 4th dimension?

Okay I'm done being a weirdo and back to being the new guy who joined the alliance today :)

Oh yeah.. Hi I'm Multiverse and I just joined today :parrot:

 
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